We interviewed David and Liva Wright the next day after they won the Senior Ballroom event at the Blackpool Dance Festival 2014. David and Liva represent USA.
Every Ballroom dancer, for me, is an experimental physicist in some sense! They go above and beyond physics in a sense that they have to deal with that X-factor, how to produce the winning performance.
Let me start with the big congratulations for yesterday’s result!
[David]: Thank you
OK, the usual question I ask at the beginning is when you started to dance and why.
[Liva]: I started dancing in 1992 at Yale University in the college social Ballroom club. So my first skill was to learn how to social dance. I started dancing with somebody who was already competing and I did not think I would continue but he really wanted to compete and I said I would try. Then I kind of got addicted to it (laughing).
David and I met in 1998 at the Ballroom class, we had different partners at the time. I was doing summer internship so I was only there for the summer, I met David there and we only danced together at the classes. In year 2000 I’ve moved back to New Haven, Connecticut and we started dancing together as partners.
[David]: My first experience with performing arts was musical theatre when I was 10 years old. It was my first exposure to song and dance. It was in Oregon, Wisconsin, a small community theatre. My first exposure to Ballroom dancing was a Viennese Waltz at the end of my high school year. That was my start into social dancing. After that I took a summer course in social ballroom dancing offered by the University of Wisconsin Madison Ballroom Dance Association. They also held summer dances and I went there for social dancing and just learned with people who asked me to dance. I said I did not know how and they said don’t worry about it, we’ll teach you how (laughing).
It was like this until I took a trip to Japan. I wanted to study the language because I studied aikido. So I went to Japan and learned that none of my peers studied aikido (laughing). They were interested in more mainstream activities. Ironically, there were all sorts of clubs on campus for activities like American football, basketball, and baseball but no club for Aikido. However, I definitely wanted to join one of the clubs to get outside the International Division where most of the time everyone spoke English, including the Japanese students who were preparing themselves for their own study abroad. I wanted to practice my Japanese so I decided to join the Ballroom Dance Club. I thought I already knew how to dance. I could just immerse myself in Japanese culture and language in a social setting where everyone would speak Japanese. Little did I know I had joined the competitive ballroom dancing club (laughing)! I had no idea what I had gotten myself in to. I had never seen competitive ballroom dancing. So my first exposure to competitive Ballroom dancing was in Japan. The first day of club practice the dancers did a turning box as a warmup exercise. I only knew a non-turning box. And I thought wow, this is spectacular! So I was hooked ever since. The Japanese, what can I say, are so inspiring! You can see from the very first year student to the fourth year student and what they can accomplish in that time, from the complete beginners who know absolutely nothing about dancing to the Professional looking dancers. I thought this is what I wanted to do. The work ethic and the team ethic was so inspiring for me and I attribute all my successes in competitive dancing to that formative year in Japan. So I have a real debt of a gratitude to the Japanese Ballroom dance community.
When I came back to the United States I just looked for something similar. I could not find anything like that in my University and I had one more year left. So I took some social classes but it was not was I was really looking for. So it was only when I moved out to Connecticut for graduate school that I plugged into the the East Coast collegiate Ballroom dance scene. That’s how I met Liva. I always had that in the back of my mind that I would like to find a life partner who was also a dancer. I almost gave up on that idea. But in 2000 Liva moved back to New Haven and, at one specific tea dance, I knew that I found my dream partner (laughing). It took a little longer for her to realise it but I knew!
So, are you saying that you felt she was not only a dancer partner but a life partner from that very moment?
[David]: Yes, it was kind like our eyes met across a crowded room and dancing with her was a little bit of magic. We had met earlier, in 1998, as she mentioned. But it was in 2000 when she moved to New Haven that we met by chance at the tea dance. Even before we met I knew of her because she was a famous alumna of the Yale Ballroom dance team. I was at Wesleyan University which did not have a Ballroom team but I went down to Yale to compete with their team. So I knew about Liva - she was famous.
[Liva]: Famous how? (laughing)
[David]: (laughing) I mean people had great respect for Liva. Maybe she did not know that but because she started as a very beginner I think she was an inspiration to the Yale team members. But the first time I really got to know Liva was that chance meeting at the tea dance. From that moment I just knew she is the girl for me.
But it took you longer to realise that, Liva?
[Liva]: I was doing my internship at that time. I am a physician and after medical school you have to do a year of internship. So I was very busy, I had a lot of commitments, I had to work really long shifts and I wasn’t sure I was ready for any kind of relationship. I was spending only a year in New Haven and after that I was going to move to do my residency in Massachusetts, which is not that far away, but there were just many changes in my life and I was not even sure I would be able to continue to dance, even though I really wanted to.
Even with such a wonderful guy as David?
[Liva]: He was great. I just had a lot of things on my mind at the time. But I did realise after maybe two or three months that he was a good find (laughing)!
[David]: She was a real trooper. At the time she was doing her internship year. In the early medical education they have this system of vetting people by putting them through a rigorous schedule.
[Liva]: You would work 36 hour shifts. You would come in at six in the morning one day and you would work through the whole day, the whole night and through the next day. You would get out, depending what is happening in the ward, at 5pm. And you would do it every third or fourth night depending on which particular service you are on. Sometimes after that I would go to would actually fall asleep (laughing).
Not during the Waltz? (laughing)
[David]: Yes, it could be a good lullaby (laughing)!
[Liva]: I would actually get to the practise most of the time. We did a competition once after I had been up for thirty six hours.
[David]: Then it paid dividends at the later on. At that time she did not have much time to devote to the dancing as I did. When I was finishing my PhD it was reversed. I had to work really hard and I said to myself if she could do that type schedule I can do it too! So I put myself through the same call schedule to get my final datasets, analyse everything and write my PhD thesis and the roles swapped. She became more accepting to the fact that sometimes I wouldn't be able to practise as much as we might have liked to. I learned from her experience!
So Liva is a doctor and David is …?
[Liva]: I am a radiologist and I interpret X-rays, MRIs, ultrasounds, CAT scans …
[David]: And I am a physicist. But I have a little bit of my mother and a little bit of my father in me. So I am torn between the performing arts and science. For me Ballroom dancing is that perfect blend between the two: analytic, physical approach and the performing arts aspect. I think that’s why Ballroom dancing has been such a draw for me.
It looks like you can use the knowledge from your professions in dancing.
[Liva]: We definitely look at anatomy books and physiology. And David definitely analyses movement from a physicist point of view. So it has helped.
[David]: The fascinating thing for me is that the human body in Ballroom dancing does not obey the laws of classical physics! It simply does not (laughing)! We have a choice in how we move. The human body is something else... we don’t have the ability to model it exactly. For that reason we don’t really understand how to produce a winning performance. So that unknown factor, this X-factor, don’t think physics can answer that question!
I must agree. The human body workings and especially human mind are totally unknown!
[David]: I think that’s where the art element comes in.
Not many dancers choose to get high education in such a demanding subject as you both did. They usually sacrifice everything for their dancing.
[David]: I find that Ballroom dancers who have sacrificed everything for their dancing have made deep discoveries and explained them in the most simplistic terms. And it always amazes me. Sure, I have made discoveries of my own and explained certain concepts but later found in many cases that I had just rediscovered or put into more technical language insight that someone had before me. This is the really fascinating thing. Every dancer, for me, is an experimental physicist in some sense! However, they go above and beyond physics in the sense that they have to deal with that X-factor, how to produce a winning performance.
Listening to you I wonder what the bigger passion to you is: physics or dancing.
[David]: I really cannot say, they are so intertwined for me. Likewise I cannot separate between my father and mother – I love them both!
Did you publish any papers on dancing?
[David]: I have been thinking about it. But, if I do, I want to be right. And as I said, it is a difficult thing to put down accurately in words (laughing).
And what about you Liva, do you have love for both medicine and dancing?
[Liva]: I think so. If I had to choose one it will be very difficult. I really love my work but I also love dancing. When I go to work the time passes so quickly because I am actually having such a good time at work (laughing). When I go dancing, it is similar, in a sense that I enjoy my day very much.
David, do you work in research?
[David]: I have been very lucky in the past years. I used to be bound to one laboratory as I am an experimental physicist by training. It could be very difficult to get away especially during my PhD work. The lab sometimes required 24 hour attention. I went on to do a post-doc at Yale University and at that time we converged and everything was great. The dancing, the work, our home, everything was in the same city. That post- doc was key in transitioning from, what I call, "table top physics", with experiments performed in a single laboratory, to collaborative physics experiments between multiple researchers in different locations working together over the internet. So I was able to transition from single laboratory physicist to collaborative work between many labs. For instance my current experiment that I work on now is in New Mexico and it produces data which collaboration members can access via the internet. I have access to it no matter where I am in the world. And that transition allowed me to work any place if I have my laptop. That’s been really liberating and we used that to a great advantage many times.
[Liva]: He has been able to adjust to my schedule a bit
[David]: I am very flexible with my time. I can work whenever I’ve got time.
But Liva obviously is still very much bound to one place, as she needs to be with a patient? Live: Yes. Usually, I am lucky in a sense, that my hours are regular. If I know I am working a regular day I’ll be able to get home by six. If I am working the night it is less predictable.
[David]: She can schedule her vacations in advance, whereas for me it is impossible. You can never say what the deadlines you have to meet, what publication is coming up, what dataset needs to be analysed. I am flexible when I work, but I am not flexible with scheduling my vacation time. I bring my work with me where ever we go.
So how do you manage with competitions? You have to schedule vacation for the competition surely?
[David]: Exactly, this is a problem. When we go for the competition I might have to also analyse the data when I am on the plane.
I have seen you here with the laptop typing something. Was it work?
[David]: Actually these were some notes from our dancing. Live: It was not work this time (laughing)
Do your parents come to watch you sometimes?
[David]: They are our biggest supporters. Every year, faithfully, they come to USA Dance Nationals competitions. They’ve been coming since we started to dance Nationals.
[Liva]: Our first was in 2008.
[David]: This was our first Nationals as Seniors. But the very first one was in 2001. Recently, when we made progress on the international scene, they started coming to the other competitions. They came to Blackpool last year. The year before that to the International. They came to Blackpool this year and it was particularly special moment for us to have them here for our big win. My aunt and uncle are also here. We are very lucky to have a supportive family.
Do your colleagues at work know about your dancing? What is there reaction, do they think it is crazy (laughing)?
[Liva]: Most of them do know, but I don’t talk about it too much at work as I don’t want people to think that I am not committed to my work. I don’t want anybody to think, oh she is good, but she could be even better if she didn’t spend so much time on her other passion. But honestly I think that the fact that I know I have a fixed amount of time to finish something makes me more efficient. If you have endless time, your task tends to expand to fill all that time. Some of my colleagues probably think it’s a little crazy, but overall, they are understanding when I say I have to go to a competition. They wish me good luck, ask if they can watch us online somewhere. Some of them were watching on DSI.tv!
Do they ask you about Dancing with the Stars?
[Liva]: All the time! They ask, are you going to be in Dancing with the Stars? I always say we don’t actually fit in either category, we are neither stars nor professionals! (laughing)
[David]: It is difficult to explain to people when they see we are putting so much time into our dancing that we are simply Amateurs. For them we are professionals because we dance professionally in terms of level and time commitment.
In a sense of popular meaning you are professionals
[David]: Yes, in that sense we are. I always try to explain that we are Amateurs and proud of that we are not Shamateurs (laughing). I don’t know where we came across that term but we love it.
[Liva]: It is an old term.
[David]: So I always say that we are proud not to be Shamateurs but Amateur dancers because I take very seriously the commitment of Professionals to their careers. I respect that.
[Liva]: We don’t teach unless somebody specifically asks us for help.
[David]: Normally, we say: look, you need to get professional help! (laughing) If someone asks for lessons we point them to professional teachers local to them.
David, how do your colleagues from work react to your dancing?
[David]: Well, there are two types. There is an active type: people who have a hobby outside of physics for instance hiking or martial arts or marathon running. These people find that cardio-vascular fitness helps them in what they do. And there is the other type: ones who take very seriously the activities at work and are all consumed by the physics.So these are the two extremes and and a wide spectrum exists between the two. Interestingly enough I found that in the USA, in collegiate circle, Ballroom dancing is a magnet for mathematicians, engineers, physicists (laughing). My explanation for it is that this is the most organised, technical approach to human social interaction there is! (laughing).
Good point!
[David]: So I found that my friends who have the technical background are very interested in it.
What do you find the most important in dancing?
[Liva]: Well, I think we try to find a perfect blend between the artistry and physicality of dancing. It is important to have the fitness to be able to bring out the artistic component. For instance, in the finals yesterday, you had to be in a good shape otherwise you couldn’t do all of the things you wanted to do. So we tried to achieve both, be in the good physical shape and also learn from our teachers the technical and artistic nuances and try to put them in our dancing.
[David]: For me the most important aspect of dancing is that it brings people together. For me personally it brings together all of the things like musicality, competition, partnering, artistry. Competition is very interesting thing for me. When you try to do things at a very high level you learn things that you would not learn otherwise. The pursuit of the winning performance has greatly benefited my overall health. Dancing brought us together and plays an integral part in our relationship as well. It is the way that we met, the way we spend time together, and an expression of our love for each other. I don’t know of any other better way to spend time with my wife than ballroom dancing.
Now let me ask a difficult question for any couple: what is the worst in your partner?
[David]:I can answer right away. In the past I might have answered the question and given you the worst of my partner but now I can confidently say that I find no fault with my partner (Liva laughing). The reason is that instead of getting caught up in these negative ideas which are counterproductive I think that the success we achieved came from looking at the positive aspects. Any characteristic you can point to can always be a strength and a weakness. It just depends how you look at it. So now I choose to see the positive aspects. When Liva is the time keeper I say this is for a reason and I don’t get angry that we should be spending more time on something. I realise that in many way we are complementary to each other and time is a good example because Liva is always aware about time. In her work, as she said, she gives a certain amount of time to a task and she gets it done in that time period. Whereas for me, I look at the task and I never think about the amount of time it is going to take. I only think about the goal I need to achieve. I don’t think about how long it is going to take me, I just work, and work, and work until I get it done. Or until somebody tells me I have no time left! (laughing) And usually it is Liva. So in the past I might have interpreted it as a negative thing but now I really see the benefit and the results.
[Liva]: I have to say the same is true for me. I sometimes think, oh, David really overanalyses things but I also realise that he needs to do it for himself to fully understand. Whether it is a figure in dancing or some musical element. And ultimately it has benefited our dancing. Sometimes I tell him to do it in on his own time and not when we are in practice together (laughing) and I will say, we have only 15 minutes left and we have to finish something else. So we need to stop what we are doing, we have already spent too much time on it, we have to move on etc. So together we managed to complement each other.
You have avoided my question!
[David]: Yes (laughing)
I have to admit it was one of the best non-answers we were given
[Liva]: So we are good politicians
[David]: I do believe it is true. In the end the mind-set is really key to success and if you get your mind in the right place you will be more productive.
[Liva]: I did answer though, I said he is over analysing things. It can be a good thing but it needs to be channelled. And he also answered that I am sometimes impatient. I want to have things done and move on so I can be impatient with him.
[David]: But it boils down to interpretation: is it impatience or efficiency? The worst is using the word impatient and the best is using the word "efficient". And it all depends whether you see the glass as half full or half empty.
Who is cooking in your house?
[Liva]: Usually me.
[David]: I would like to add that I recently started, sometimes, making an effort (laughing) to cook for myself. Just for myself, to take some of the burden off her. We tend to eat different things. I have some dietary restrictions, for instance she will have potatoes while I have rice.
[Liva]: So I have to cook sometimes two different meals.
[David]: So I realised that I have to help out and to do my part. I am getting better with cooking meals for myself. I can do rice, I can bake salmon. It is easy, you take a baking sheet and put the salmon on it add a little seasoning, and bake it for a little while. It is brilliant, Liva taught me how to do it. I am trying to do my part and someday I will cook for both of us (laughing).
Who is usually driving?
[David]: We have a 50/50 relationship, so I do the driving and she does the navigation! She tells me where to go and I turn the wheel (laughing). She can drive of course. We have an automatic, but here in England you have the manual stick shift by default so when we are here I am doing the driving.
[Liva]: For long trips in the USA we usually take my car because it is automatic and then I drive some of the time and then we switch. Here it is strictly David.
[David]: I like to drive because when I in the passenger seat sometimes I get a little queasy as I cannot anticipate as well which way the car is going to move. I prefer to be in the driver seat.
How do you find driving on the left hand side? Live: He is good at it
[David]: I’m fairly good at it only because I know that the tradition comes from jousting, that's what I heard anyway (laughing). The reason is that you can hold your lance with your right hand and more easily hit the oncoming person with the lance when they are to the right. Whenever I have any difficulty I think, OK, I am holding a lance out right hand side of the car in my right hand so I can hit the oncoming traffic (laughing)!
[Liva]: The streets are very well marked, it is like “drive on this side”. Frequently there are arrows and you can get a hint. But the roundabouts are really scary.
[David]:I love the roundabouts, the greatest invention ever. You never have to stop, you can make a u-turn if you want to, and you can go round and round if you don’t know where you are going. I think it is brilliant. In every country there are these little customs. Once you know them it is not a problem but if you are not familiar with them it can be a pretty big problem. In the United States when you want to turn right you always turn in front of the oncoming traffic but here you might go one car passed and turn on the opposite side of the oncoming car. You have to get used to that.
What is the strangest custom that you have ever come across?
[Liva]: Tap for cold water and tap for hot water in England (laughing)!
[David]: That’s a good one! (laughing)
[Liva]: While it is so easy to join them…
There is a real explanation for it but now it is a tradition
[David]: It is like that with most traditions where you lose sight of the original idea. You can get a greater appreciation of a tradition when you explain the reason behind it. I found that fascinating.
Isn’t it like this with Ballroom dancing?
[David]: Absolutely.
Do you prefer live music?
[Liva]: I love it
[David]: For me, having a musical theatre background, we had a live orchestra when we were performing and I miss that. I remember one night I completely messed up the lyrics of the song and I actually repeated the verse. The conductor just knew exactly where I was and he repeated the music. So the live orchestra is absolutely phenomenal. The communication between the orchestra and the artist, in this case the singer, or the dancers is really special and a great tradition in Blackpool.
[Liva]:I love when the band is playing. It is almost like stepping back in time in a way because you don't have that many competitions where there is a live orchestra.
Can you describe the individual dances the way you see them?
[David]:I think that the Waltz is the most extreme of all the dances. You are showing the highs and you are showing the lows, physically, through the depth and height of swing physically and, emotionally, remembering the happy and sad times in life.
[Liva]: Many Waltzes are quite sad but they have these moments of brightness.
[David]: It is nostalgia and brightness.
[Liva]: With Foxtrot it always helps me to think of American Jazz. It is playful dance. It is not about ups and downs, it is rolling type of action
[David]: ...through the highlights in its music. We all know what jazz means according to one of original senses of the word. It shows the chemistry between the man and a woman.
[Liva]: Tango of course is an interested blend of passion and rejection. I think of that when I dance Tango.
[David]: It is very much grounded in a relationship between the two dancers. Maybe in that sense the most extreme dance, in a relationship aspect, is Tango.
[Liva]: People say that it is one of the easier dances because it doesn’t have swing. But it is also quite difficult because the foot action has to be very precise and a lot of people don’t get it right. Also the articulation of the feet is very challenging. I think that within ladies, Vicky Barr has the best Tango action, and for men it is Stephen Hannah. Beautiful, great Tango action in terms of feet.
[David]: The Tango is the most interesting in a sense that it had this evolution in two very different directions: original Argentinian Tango and competitive Ballroom dancing. They evolved separately along two parallel tracks. It is extremely interesting how we, as competitors, can go back to this original Tango and inject some of this original character. I heard it was Freddie Kempf who actually first danced the Tango in competition with the character it has now. It will be interesting to see the evolution as it goes forth.
[Liva]: Quickstep for us was always a relatively easy dance. It is very bright, it is very happy. It is kind of an airhead dance (laughing). We enjoy it. It always was, in many ways, our best dance.
[David]: Liva has cat-like reflex so explosive actions and the quickness, fast movements come very natural to her. It fits me as well. I think of the Quickstep as an extension of Foxtrot. It was the tempo the orchestra played the music. When the tempo is faster the action changes. If the energy of the dancers is high the orchestra might respond by playing the music up tempo. It is an interesting window into the conversation between the orchestra and the dancers. What the orchestra is playing the dancers are doing and vice versa. They feed off each other. So the technique which evolved came from writing down what people did rather than sit and think about what people should do. The Viennese Waltz I look at as the mother of all Ballroom dances. It was the first dance I started with. My mother found the short course given by a local couple at the end of my high school term. It was a summer course. So that was a first dance I learned. And I think historically it is is the original Ballroom dance. I think it is most pure of all of them.
[Liva]: I view it as a very precise dance. You have to get the turns right or the mistakes will accumulate. The judges say it is easy to judge as well, you only have few figures.
[David]: Absolutely. I am surprised that WDSF added the extra figures because if you want objectivity than this is the most objective dance to judge because everybody is doing the same thing. You get a fair comparison. So why change that particular dance?
[Liva]: They want to evolve it so it is OK. But I think it is a very technical, precise dance. When I see the top Professionals it always reminds me of a Viennese ball. You see the flowing dresses, the couples are almost synchronized, it is beautiful.
[David]: Yes, the image comes up of a Viennese ball. It is such a beautiful thing to watch.
Going back to what you said about the addition of new figures makes it harder to judge the technique. Do you think that competitors should be judged for technical quality or should be allowed more complicated figures to show the character of a dance better?
[David]: Let me give you an analogy from figure skating. It used to be that skaters were asked to skate and retrace a figure, say a figure 8, on the ice and they were judged how well they went around that 8. The judges could look at the line, the shape, and the flow of movement. They could look at that sort of calligraphy, that drawing on ice, and the action used to create it. They could look at the skating of that basic figure and rate the quality of it. Because every skater skated the same figure the judges could more easily compare the skaters. That was an integral part of the competition. I think this is analogous to the Viennese Waltz with only these limited, simple figures. So this is the dance where there is a chance, for a judge to make a direct comparison between the couples doing the same figures and for a competitor to show the basic action and the quality with which they dance a figure. And the other dances are the opportunity to show other aspects, like more complicated figures and intricate choreography.
[Liva]: I’ve heard that judges frequently say that they look for your basics. Because the basics are easier to compare and to judge. It has to be a mix. You have to do enough of each in order to express the character of each dance. There are competitions, mainly for Professionals, where you are allowed the syllabus figures only and they get compared and judged in that way. But there are not many competitions like this and I think we should have more of those.
But if it wasn’t for that, would you like to dance basics only?
[Liva]: I love basics. I think they are beautiful. And they are really hard. It is easier to do the frilly stuff than a really good basic step. Sometimes you see a Professional couple dancing just basic and it is something interesting to watch.
[David]: I would love to just dance basic. It is always like that with a new thing, you find the interest in a new choreography but then you come back to the basics and return with a new appreciation for them. So there is this constant back and forth between the advanced and basic action. Recently I have come to appreciate many aspects of the basic action which were completely invisible to me before.
Do you dance Latin?
[Liva]: No, not competitively, only socially. I love Latin. I have a lot of respect for 10 Dancers. I think they are amazing people. I would love to dance Latin but there isn’t quite enough time in a day for both. And enough money (laughing). But socially we really enjoy Latin. When I first started I did all dances but in Latin I only got to the Silver level which is not a very high level in a syllabus. They I stopped doing it because I had a partner, when I was in medical school, who had a different partner for Latin. He wanted a Standard partner so I fit the job description (laughing).
[David]: I did Latin dancing from the very beginning in social dancing and continued to do so when I competed. When I met Liva we did the Smooth dances (which are danced in America) in addition to the International Ballroom dances. I wish that her previous partner hadn’t told her that she couldn’t dance Latin (laughing). Maybe we would have danced Latin as well.
[Liva]: Maybe but I think it was a lack of time problem as I did my internship. Also at that point I was significantly better at Standard as well. So it was more instantly gratifying to do Standard than go back and revive my rusty Latin (laughing). And I think Standard is more suitable for couple our age! Latin today has a very youthful look to it and it is more difficult to capture that energy if you are not 25 years old anymore.
[David]: Nonsense. I don’t agree (laughing)!
That you very much! See you soon at another competition!
