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Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

   
Joined on 31 sie 2007
Total posts: 81

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

19 listopada 2007 05:01

Thank you sambatogo for your comments. If the purpose of this web site is to inform, then we must try to present some facts. Unfortunately "think of me" does the opposite by somehow trying to relate the WDC, the North American Alliance, plus, again, the much maligned CDDSC president, and the amateur registry.

 

I will try to present some facts as was suggested. First the USA is represented on the WDC by NDCA and Canada is represented on the WDC by the CDDSC. The North American Dance Sport Alliance was established in 2004. Before that it was called the North American Treaty and first established in 1981. So the Alliance (Treaty) is not something new. Its main purpose was to provide a procedure for more direct communication between the two countries. The WDC has no involvement.

 

As far as an amateur registry is concerned, the NDCA had been registering amateurs before the CDDSC came into existence and the North American Treaty obviously had no influence on Canadian policy at that time. Canada and USA policies were different. The Canadian professional organization instituted amateur registry because they thought, rightly or wrongly, it was in the best interests of the professionals and the amateurs. It  was not a decision made under the North American Dance Sport Alliance. I would also add that the CDDSC President is not the leader of the North American Dance Sport Alliance. It is really quite pathetic the way a few people (or one person a few times) keep trying to personalize the discussion and malign the reputation of the CDDSC president.

Joined on 14 wrz 2007
Total posts: 33

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

20 listopada 2007 17:31

I am back and it apears I have missed a many good and not so good postings.

 

Thank you for explaining the relationships,  and for not taking a stand regarding right or wrong with the amateur registry.

 

Would you say it was right move ? Wrong move ?  Or do you not have suficient data and therefore prefer to sit - side by side with many othters- on the fence, while targeting those who made a stand - on either side of the fence ?

I do not have the data,  I am happy to sit beside you and shoot cannon onto either side.  It is safe,  but a bit prickly,  and I am ready to climb down.  But which side of the fence ?

 

Who is the leader of of Canadian branch of the North American Dance Sport Alliance , since you say it is not the   CDDSC President .

 

It certainly would be pathetic and unfair of anyone to "keep trying to personalize the discussion and malign the reputation " as you ointed out.

 

 

 

 

Joined on 20 paź 2006
Total posts: 1 137

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

21 listopada 2007 14:33

polkadancer:

I do have to report that the e-mail received by the Webmaster from Canadian DanceSport Federation and featured in THE NEWS has caused me several laughs.  It is in my view so immature so petty and so unprofessional.. 

We all know that dancesportinfo.net is the BEST dance website that there is but I wonder was the e-mail sent to only one web site. If so WHY?   After today however that might well be rectified.

 

I have checked several other sites and there is no mention.  Could this be because if received they did  not take it seriously? Could it be that one of the persons named is a member of this forum and they are reacting to opinions in threads?  It shows the power of dancesportinfo.net forums in that case. 

 

Instead of carping it would be better if Candian DanceSport Federation took pride in the fact that some Candian Professional  - protecting the freedom and rights of people for which Canada is renown - were prepared to propose that ALL couples from every association and country had the right todance and compete in any Open event free of bans, boycotts and the threat of punishment.

 

I can well imagine a special meeting being called all the named persons summonsed then a debate and a vote being taken which of course received unanimous support and then a specific order being issued "Write an e-mail. and make clear we have the permission of every individual person to use their name".

 

What is very amusing is that the WDC do not suggest that Mr. Stephen Harper the Prime Minister of Canada flew to Blackpool to propose the motion  - and even if he had a huge number of Canadians would have said  he does not speak for me.

 

In the thread about whether to sign the WDC Register or not  Jazz asked this question

Who in Canada made the proposal to WDC ?

The answer was very obvious since WDC only accepts motions proposed by its members so as I advised Jazz it was the Canadian Dance & DanceSport Council the Canadian Representatives to the WDC. 

Simple and not rocket science. 

 

Jazz also in the same thread made this observation

And why is it that such a proposal -coming from such 'less than a significant 'dance' country' ( compared with Russia, Italy, Japan ...or any other country around the world- you name it ) - was accepted in such a grand style, and immediately acted upon

I did point out that no matter how insignificant a nation might be they had a voice and were treated as equals by WDC.  In any event I can imagine that the move has long been debated by various member countries  and the motion would have been debated and a vote taken before action was taken.

 

Clearly the Canadian Dancesport Federation disagree with Jazz and believe that they are highly significant and THEY ARE "Canada" and speak for "Canada".

 

Interesting for me though are the following

¨

1.  Was a copy of the e-mail sent - as would be honourable - to the WDC and the Canadian Dance & DanceSport Council.?  Certainly it does not seem to be an "Open" Letter widely distributed.

2.  Why did these persons - who claim to be the majority - not remain in the "Council: and bring change through democratic principles?  

Had they done that then "Canada" would not have proposed the motion so maybe they should blame themselves if CDF disagree.

OR

Do they simply believe in their own agenda and would deny Canada the right to a voice at WDC?

3.  Do these people believe that it is in the best interests of Canadian Dancers to (a) cause further division (b) to support monopolies, domination and discrimination?

4. Have the signatories acted purely to protect their own rights.? 

Would those who promote competitions  not received sanctions for their evens in the future?       

Would those who coach not be allowed to continue coaching CADA/IDSF couples?

Would they have not been allowd to adjudicate CADA/IDSF events?

5. CADA is a member of IDSF and IDSF claims it represents all  Amateur and Professional - who are ONE and there is no distinction so why on earth not join CADA directly? That would be the most obvious thing I believe. and create even greater unity and co-operation between them.

Alternatively

have CDF (or is that CDSF?) unanimously sworn support to IPDSC?  We should know.. 

 

What also interests me is why we are NOT told that it was CANADA who proposed the motions at the IDSF AGM to reject the report of the then 1st Vice President of IDSF and WHY that report is kept secret rather than giving all members the opportunity to read how some in IDSF feel?  It is not all sunshine and roses as the public scriptures suggest.. 

The most fascinating thing for me is

what we are NOT told

is always more imporant than what we are..

.

Sorry it is again multiple questions and not one question and one answer.

 

*********************************************

.

 

Could I please and with great respect that we get back to the origional topic and maybe some one might finally give some answers.

Just to start us off

1. Which organisation in Canada proposed that competitors have the freedom to make their own career choices and to compete where they choose?.

2. Which organisation are totally opposed to this concept. Ashamed that Canada believes in freedom and wanting to proclaim they want no part of this?

3. Which organisation proposed the rejection of seeking co-operation between dance bodies?

4- Does the process of requiring Regiistration indicate only evil intent.?

 

Joined on 07 kwi 2005
Total posts: 236

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

21 listopada 2007 16:51

@ Polkadancer:

Since you so eagerly quoted  some of me previous posts and in a bright colour,  and since it was I who defend CDF against unkind attacks , perhaps I deserve  your answer to the simple  question by Aspirin,  an answer which you failed to address and respond to  by  posting several questions of your own :

If you want an answer  to questions,  anwer a simple question put to you thus not appearing to be evasive or slippery.   The question posted was : 

"Who is the leader of of Canadian branch of the *North American Dance Sport Alliance , since you say it is not the   CDDSC President ." ?

followed by a 'disclaimer':

It certainly would be pathetic and unfair of anyone to "keep trying to personalize the discussion and malign the reputation " as you ointed out.

I agree, it would be unfair and unkind, and if I recall it was  Jazz2004 who made it her mission to defend the mentioned reputation and so have others,  and I'dliek to be part of it.

Who is the Canadian leader of *NADSA ?

 

By the way,  the questions you post indicate you see only extreme opposites, and Think Of Me  is invited to please comment regarding the critical reasoning. For example what would be appropriate answer to :Does the process of requiring Regiistration indicate only evil intent.?

Only evil intent ?  ONLY ? Evil ?

Why couldn't the reasons be other then Evil ?  First you suggest that there was "Evil" intent,  something that nobody has suggested, implied, hinted,  just Polkadancer,  and then the exclussion of onther possible intents such as:

1. Greed

2. Show as importance

3. Unimaginative copying of USA action ( USA had a duplicate registry for years as someone posted ) 

4. Provocation

5. Undiplomatic

6. Stupid and/or unnecessary

7. Under ( a proven ) false pretence to protect amateurs 

Just remember,  the 'unnecessary',  the redundant  and questioned  Canadian Amateur Registry by CDDSC  was either an  invention and a product of WDC,  in which case  CDDSC,  as the 'north american representatives'  were just delegated to implement, OR,  it was the "invention"     of the CDDSC,  and we must not forget  that the members who supported the Amateur registry, all excuses and reason given why it was required,  and the insistance  on collection of $ 25, and disallowing dancers without membership to participate in 'their' dances   are  now more-rather-than-less  members of CDF.

 

But first, back to the outstanding questions :

Who is the Canadian leader of NADSA ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined on 31 sie 2007
Total posts: 81

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

21 listopada 2007 21:53

To Jazz

I am not answering for polkadancer, but I think you were referring to comments I made regarding theNorth American Dancesport Alliance (NADSA) – My comments were to refute the statement by "think of me" November 6

 Why is it that there was need for WDC  to use  CDDSC president and charge him as a leader of the North American Alliance and  to try introduce so called "Amateur Registry"  requiring all Canadian Amateurs who untill that time

 

think of me appears to say that the CDDSC President was the leader of NADSA. In fact, the "leader" of  NADSA is a Joint Committee consisting of at least two members from each country. There have been different representatives at various meetings. One would assume the President of NDCA and the President of CDDSC would be representatives from their organizations.

 

I am perplexed why some people seem to believe the NADSA is relevant to the fact that the CDDSC put forward the motion at the WDC AGM - that individual countries belonging to the WDC should register amateur competitors. Except perhaps that the USA had already taken that step sometime ago

 

Joined on 20 paź 2006
Total posts: 1 137

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

22 listopada 2007 07:35

Dear jazz

I hope you are satisfied with the answer given by quicktime2  BUT I ask

Why create a smoke screen and attempt to divert attention away from the actual topic?

Might I suggest because you are unwilling (I will not suggest "evasive and slippery"  which words do  not bring you any credit) . 

Those with something to hide always try to answer a question with a question. 

I repeated my actual opening post which relates to mail received from CDF by dancesportinfo for publication so the topic returned to that. 

At no time have I mentioned the party to which your question relates and for me it is totally un-connected with the e-mail that CDF wanted broadcast worldwide..

  P.S.  If you desperately seek information and reject quickstep2 then why not Google for the info(something you have done before) or write to NADSA.

Joined on 20 paź 2006
Total posts: 1 137

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

22 listopada 2007 07:52

aspirin:

The discussed CDF e-mail displays  a list of member Professionals-many of whom are recognized not only by local people, ( something Polkadancer would like readers to believe ) but also by dance enthusiast  around the World. 

********************************************

Dear aspirin

I cannot  grasp your logic here.  If people world wide are going to recognise and know 90% of the names and say

"Of course all those people are known around the World and that shows that polkadancer is a fool"

that should make you very happy.

However my question - how many of these famous people known Worldwide were consulted and agreed to their name being used? 

It makes me smile when I think why a few are known around the World

Joined on 02 lis 2006
Total posts: 111

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

22 listopada 2007 17:43

Aspirin,  come on now,  have you not seen the names under the CDF's e-mail ?

 

As one  active posters correctly put :

"In most professions and sports the leaders are the ones who have excelled in their activity. They have earned and proven their right to lead. "

 

Have you not recognized  in the long list of the CDF's members anyone who has excelled in dance,  who have not earned and proven their right to lead ?

Perhaps the World  Dance Professional Title in 10 Dance ( which other,  probably average and naive majority, would consider the best as far as it goes ) does not deserve a mention ?

I for one have recognized many names which meet this poster's requirement.

 

It also makes me smile,  when I read from Polkdancers own "keyboard" :

Those with something to hide always try to answer a question with a question. 

 

Who was the poster asking half a dozen questions  and avoided answering a single question ?

 

Was it not Polkadancer ?

 

The web we weave...just to fall and get intagled in it ourselves.

 

A question was entered:    Are you saying that the clarification the CDF letter provides is that dance professionals in Canada are united? Is that what you think? Regardless of which side one is on, I don't think there are any professionals who would agree with that statement.

No,  it shows there was disagreement which resulted in formation of a new CDF whose members are united.  Of course the professionals in Canada are very much divided,  reason for the split .  

What do you think,  is it better to rebuild a structure which has rotten foundations, infested with buggs ,  or is it better to leave the structure to its own demise and build a new structure with healthy and quality foundations ?

Not for a minute do I think there were no attempts to make a democratic decision,  but not always such is possible,  and this was the case.

As for a suggestion CDF agrees and supports with CADA -  it is a rubbish.  CDF cannot exost without CADA just as CADA needs a co-operating professional association,  and they found one in CDF.   The two parties agreed to co-operate and try coexist in harmony,    something which probably became impossible with CDDSC.

Are professionals united ?  It depends how far you want to analyze it.

THe members are individuals who compete one with another for students, for floor space,   each with their own Egos,  and individual motives. They need to co-exist under an umbrela,  just as dentists and other professionals belong to their associations or federations.  Are they united ? No, but they are required to obide by a certain code of ethics and conduct. 

Who was the poster suggesting a professional dancers / teacher would act unprofessionally if trying to talk to parents and students at a given competition, trying to attract them to his/her studio ?  Unprofessional ?   Under waht code of conduct ?  Dental association,  manufacturer's association,  dog kennel club ?

No,  by the code of their own association- such the code of CDF.  Is it safe to say that the professional dancers and other members of CDF are united by the agreed upon codes of CDF ?   I suppose it is safe to agree.

 

Who is the leader of the Canadian North American  Dance Alliance,  and the person responsible to WDC for actions of the Alliance ?

I also thought it was the president of CDDSC . If not why such a secrecy,  you are not shy to name Freitag,  Bains ,  Burns,  Sammy.

 

And  if WDC is inviting  everyone to join them, why do you suggest WDC would not recognize and deal with CDF

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined on 31 sie 2007
Total posts: 81

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

23 listopada 2007 02:25

 

Dear Jazz2004

 

You keep asking "who is the person responsible to WDC for actions of the Alliance ?". I answered this question a while ago. I suppose you didn't hear what you wanted.  Perhaps you can you tell me what topic this is relevant to?

 

Your other question, which you feel is important and in bold isAnd  if WDC is inviting  everyone to join them, why do you suggest WDC would not recognize and deal with CDF ?

 

I am not WDC and cannot answer. But I can pose a similar question. Why would WDC not recognize and deal with IPDSC? Perhaps you can answer this question yourself and you will have a good start on answering your own question.

 

 

 

 

Joined on 29 sie 2007
Total posts: 105

Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.

23 listopada 2007 07:03

To Jive2004,

To address some of your statements.

1] Re: CDDSC: "Rotten foundation, infested with buggs" Seems to have allways been operating sucessfully in the past and still to this day.

2] Re:CDDSC: "Not possible to make a democratic decision" The decisions made are democratic in the CDDSC just like many other organisations. Just not the right democratic decisions according to your liking!!

No attempt by the CDF founding members were put forth to change CDDSC policies or rules. Infact I have been told that they helped make the rules.

3] Re: Unprofessional behavoiur and conduct: Wll if you think there is no such thing as Professional conduct or code of ethics, then you should definately be with the IDSF. As they don`t believe in Professionalism. The WDC does. Maybe thats why the WDC does not want the CDF?

4] Re: Under what code of Conduct: The CDTA which are members of the CDDC have laid down Professional ethics in their rules. Similar rules do not appear to be in the CDF?  It is clear that if you think professional solicitation of students is acceptable at comps. Then you have no idea about what being a true professional is? 

5] Re: CDF Can not exist without CADA: The truest statement said by you.

But I am not so sure that CADA cannot live without the CDF!! As they seem to enjoy dictating like the IDSF to all. I am sure the CDF will in time become usless to CADA one day,  just like the WDC did to the IDSF. And then were are you all in the CDF, as the IDSF does not believe in Professionals? And CADA has a direct link to the IDSF.

6] Re: CADA to Co- exist with CDDSC was impossible: We will never know as CADA decided to never have discussuions with the CDDSC again, and refused offers by the CDDSC for independant mediation and further talks.

7] Yes, the former WDC World professional 10 Dance Champion does appear to be a CDF member. For what reason, one can only speculate? But they do have a direct family connection to CADA directors and dictators, and concequently the CDF.  So suppose blood is thicker than a world championship WDC title? 

Are you the sad soul that was puppy, as puppy has vanished? You certainly sound somewhat like her.

Sambatogo.  

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