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Re: Canadian Closed Amateur Championships Halifax 2008 - Judging

   
quicktime2
Joined on 31 sie 2007
Total posts: 81

Re: Canadian Closed Amateur Championships Halifax 2008 - Judging

12 kwietnia 2008 06:02

There is a thread on Dance Forum on the "Canadian Closed Championships 2008 – results" however since a number of the later posts concern only the judging, I have opened another thread on that topic.

 

LUV2dance said "..our highest Canadian Championship failed completely. We still have the same group of judges. Some of the judges adjudicated the qualifying events and then        the final championships. So we had to have their opinion twice. And then some judged last year and again this year! Not only not fair but against the rules."

 

I agree with you LUV2dance but haven't you missed the most significant points? There were only seven judges and TWO OF THE  JUDGES AND THE CHAIRPERSON WERE FROM THE SAME STUDIO.  AND MANY OF THE JUDGING PANEL NEVER PLACED HIGH ENOUGH  IN COMPETITIONS WHEN THEY DANCED TO EVEN MAKE IT IN A CANADIAN CHAMPIONSHIP!!

 

Is this what the competitors deserve?

Is this what competitors train all year for? To be judged by people who never reached the level the competitors are dancing at?

 

Remember this is what CADA demands. Only use CDF Championship Adjudicators.

 

CADA you should be ashamed.

 

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keggs
Joined on 24 gru 2005
Total posts: 208

Re: Canadian Closed Amateur Championships Halifax 2008 - Judging

12 kwietnia 2008 22:42

Hi Quicktime2

With all due respect there are 2 separate issues here. I quite agree that using the same judges twice is unnaceptable and if it is against the rules those involved should be disciplined. Won't happen though.

However it is rather ridiculous in my opinion to say that judges who have not reached the highest levels of competition should be barred from judging those competitions. Judging like teaching / coaching has nothing to do with your level as a past competitor. Judging should be about knowledge and using that knowledge to come to a decision. There are many judges in Britain (my old coach was one of them) who never won the British or any other major championship. Yet she has trained many champions.

What really matters is whether (a) the judges are competent to judge and (b) that all officials adhere to the rules of absolute fairness and be not afraid to adhere to the rules.

Best wishes

Steve

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think of me
Joined on 05 sie 2005
Total posts: 233

Re: Canadian Closed Amateur Championships Halifax 2008 - Judging

13 kwietnia 2008 17:56

CADA    cannot be blamed for everything.

They have no control over ethics / comeptency of judges,  neither have WDC,IDSF, CDF, CDDSC, CDTA.

Judging Sport,  where performace depends on judging elegance, emotions, feelings, beauty...with onlu a few seconds to decide....while influenced by personal biases (  my own student, someone else's student, someone I dislike -for no reason, someone I dislike for reason, owing a favour,  promissed a favour to another judge/teacher etc etc )

I could also suggest using minimum of 9 judges, with 5 judges from abroad, therefore considered "unbiased/neutral.

How about having judges declare who their students are on the dance floor, and have a scrutaneer go over the final marks assuring judging corresponds with the majority.

Why not delete the highest and the lowest scores for each dance, and use marks from 9-2=7 judges ?

Why not charge a competent scrutaneer who , using a computer could evaluate the marks and question the judge who gives "too low marks' to the winners , and "too high marks" to those who place well below based on the majority ruling  ?

Do not blame CADA.  They cannot do what the rest of the dance World had been unable to do.

 

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quicktime2
Joined on 31 sie 2007
Total posts: 81

Re: Canadian Closed Amateur Championships Halifax 2008 - Judging

15 kwietnia 2008 00:32

Hi Keggs

 

I agree with the two requirements you listed for comps – judges' competency and abide by the rules. But consider one more requirement  Appearance!

 

It does seem that using the same judges two years in a row is against the rules and as some of the same judges also judged the events that the competitors had to dance in, in order to qualify for the Championships, it gives the appearance of a little closed shop. Little wonder the competitors have to butter up these few coaches as they have such a predominant say in the results. Like having to take lessons??

 

An important competition like the Canadian Closed Championship should at least look like it will be fair. Doesn't three people from the same studio, on such a small judging panel, raise eyebrows?  Perhaps these judges from the same school never discussed with each other the competitors or their students. I certainly hope so. It's possible I guess.

 

And Keggs you may be correct in saying that even if a judge has not been a competitor or hasn't danced at a level he is marking, he may be a competent judge. (Again I don't think most competitors would agree). But at least shouldn't this be an exception?

 

The fact is, the panel must not only be impartial and well qualified but it must appear to be so. And that is where the CADA Amateur Championships at Halifaz failed. On both counts.

Regards

 

 

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keggs
Joined on 24 gru 2005
Total posts: 208

Re: Canadian Closed Amateur Championships Halifax 2008 - Judging

15 kwietnia 2008 13:48

Hi Quicktime2

I quite agree with you here. In fact, it annoys me that the British Championships also appear to be a kind of closed shop. While none may not teach in the same studio, the majority of the adjudicators are from the same area - London and just around it. Yes, there are a few from other parts of the country but not many.

Not just that, the judges appear to be generally be the same people with only a year or 2 break in between. There are many top coaches / judges in Britain who never seem to get the chance to judge at what is supposed to be the Wimbledon of the Dance Sport world.

Best wishes

Steve

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