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Re: WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

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onyourtoes
Joined on 12 lut 2007
Total posts: 102

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 14:09

@moderate-man

I am sure I am not the only forum member who will miss your wealth of knowledge, the accuracy and clarity of your words, and the total consistency of your postings.

 

I may be totally wrong but I have an instinct that you have a great many beneficial ideas and these you express where they really count rather than "pie in the sky" on the forum. I can understand your feelings though when you read some of the postings here.

 

Have a great summer and I hope to see you back sometime (soon)

 

.   

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jazz
Joined on 07 kwi 2005
Total posts: 236

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 14:18

@ onyourtoes:   

Exactly.   Moderate-man was  clear .  

 Isn't onyourtoes  doing exactly what he was  accused of by a wheelchair dancer he chased away  ? Beating around the bush  demanding  to know what was already clearly said and accusing others of not saying it ?

I also prefer to stick with reality and the subject.

You  ask :  "Why are they ashamed to admit domination is the name of the game and they want no half way meeting and equality? Why not be honest with themselves never mind anyone else."

 

I do not agree with the IDSF vision and methods of attaining it,    but   wasn't  Rudi  B.   clear,  honest concise enough when telling you exactly what you are criticising IDSF for not  doing ?

Rudi has clearly defined the  vision, objectives and the method, it is unfair to criticize just because you do not like the message.

You write many words  and your English is excellent,  and you produce lots of  good reading material but what you say can be expressed in fewer words with more clarity.

Others  include some statements like do not take this personally, with  best regards, I don't.

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jazz
Joined on 07 kwi 2005
Total posts: 236

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 15:08

It is IDSF policy that IDSF Member Federations, their athletes, official and adjudicators cannot participate in these unregistered competitions.
This event is also not running under IOC Rules and Regulations, that includes the Anti-Doping Code and controls of the WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency).

 

@onyourtoes

you have correctly stressed the use of the word "cannot",   which is used very cleverly instead of  "must not",  or,  "are not allowed to"      The opposite to "cannot"   is  "can".

 

In legal terms, and I am not an expert,   "cannot"  is a  term left to interpretation, and many  readers will associate  "cannot"  with    prohibition  and words such as  "must not" - and  "not allowed to" -  and the words such as "punishment", "penalty" even   "expulsion"  may sneak into their  subconscious.

 

There may be dancers who will attend the competitions which IDSF does not endorse,  and challenge IDSF to  act.

 

I do not believe IDSF would  take any  action,  because the cost of possible  punitive damages  rewarded to the dancers  by the courts  (should the dancers  claim compensation for  damage  to their  careers,   loss of time and investment put into their dance) and the chance of losing a case,   would not be worth  the trouble.

IDSF has lawyers on the staff and if the words  "must not"  could be used,  I am certain IDSF would not use the rather soft "cannot".

Perhaps somebody will test my hypotheses,  be it through an innocent oversight, or with a conviction and intent.   It will happen,  and IDSF will pull a tail between the legs and do nothing, or will try pressure the national organization to deal with the "rebels",  and national organizations will not know what to do as they will not want to lose payng  and/or  national representatives members, and  get in a legal trouble.

 

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keggs
Joined on 24 gru 2005
Total posts: 208

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 15:27

Hi Jazz

I wouldn't bother anymore. The views are so entrenched that any logical discussion will never happen until supporters on both sides get down from their ivory towers.

The very fact that neither mm and oyt couldn't actually debate the points I answered in oyt's challenging post just shows me that they aren't really interested in finding a way forward.

I don't think either mm or oyt expected me to answer but just in case I did, oyt gave a short reply saying not to bother.

Solutions are in short supply it seems.

What is so sad to me though is that problems are not insurmountable if there is the will to do something about it. Could it be that the WDC and its supporters don't want a solution other than one which is on their terms. If I am right isn't that what they accuse the IDSF of doing? Or have | missed something.

Nah! I don't think so.

Best wishes

Steve

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jazz
Joined on 07 kwi 2005
Total posts: 236

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 15:42

Hi Steve,

who cares what 3 or 4  posters write and suggest.  What does it matters  if you, or  somebody else proposes, or out wits  with a better argument here?    If WDC and IDSF needed an advice they would not come here.  Just try to guess how many of those who come here and bother to read the posts, give a hoot, and of those who do, how many will take it a step further and do something about it ?

What dancers need is a union.  Through dancer's union  dancers could  dictate to their associations, IDSF and WDC and do anything they would agree on - from setting  cost they are willing to pay for  their lessons,  set  fees,  venues,  competition rules,  set rewards,  set standards and demand accountability for  judging,  health and safety, you name it. 

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keggs
Joined on 24 gru 2005
Total posts: 208

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 15:53

Hi Jazz

I was thinking the same. Even if reps from both sides were actually reading this it is unlikely they will take anything any of us say on board.

Quote: "Dancers need a union,  together  they can dictate to their associations, IDSF and WDC  whatever they wish."

Now there's an idea. Could it include teachers as well?

Best wishes

Steve

 

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onyourtoes
Joined on 12 lut 2007
Total posts: 102

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 15:59

Copy and Paste from the web site of a National Association.

SPECIAL NOTICE

Dear Member,

The IDSF Presidium has received notice that World Dance Council (WDC) proposes to produce an "Open World Amateur Ballroom & Latin Championships 2008“ at the Disney Resort Paris, in France, December 5-7, 2008.
This production is not authorized by the IDSF.
It is IDSF policy that IDSF Member Federations, their athletes, official and adjudicators cannot participate in these unregistered competitions.
This event is also not running under IOC Rules and Regulations, that includes the Anti-Doping Code and controls of the WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency).

Best regards,

Marco Sietas
IDSF Office
C. Orient 78-84, Floor 2, Office 15
08172 Sant Cugat, Spain
Phone: + 34 93 544 23 92
Fax: + 34 93 583 11 04
www.idsf.net

 

 

 

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jazz
Joined on 07 kwi 2005
Total posts: 236

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 16:12

CANNOT  ?  

 

And what happens if  dancers decide they CAN ? What can   IDSF do  if dancers decide they want to and that they WILL attend ?

 

What does "cannot"    mean ?   Has IDSF stated what action would be taken,  instead of "may be taken",  and would they follow through  if the dancers simply paid the fees to WDS and attended the event  ?

 

How can IDSF  prevent dancers from dancing in the event, and later claiming they were not informed of the  "cannot" ?   Because they do not have access to Internet,  have not received a notification from their association,  which would have to be send and signed for upon a receipt in a form of a registered letter ?

 

Which lawyer would want to prosecute dancers with such an explanation ? How would IDSF prove the dancers were  informed and that  their rule/by-law  was broken by the dancers?   Which lawyer would want to defend IDSF, or a national member association,  if they would  take action against a dancers, which the dancer ( or his/her lawyer )  would view as unfair and damaging to their careers/ health and took the case  to the court ?

 

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think of me
Joined on 05 sie 2005
Total posts: 236

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 16:32

 

@ jazz

in the process of logging on to respond,  I forgot the point I wanted to make.

Darned.  

 

 

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keggs
Joined on 24 gru 2005
Total posts: 208

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

2 lipca 2008 18:45

Exactly right Jazz

We'll have to wait and see whether the IDSF do impose their ban or whether they drop it. The likelihood is they won't which will prbably make them look foolish.

I'd rather they look foolish than start another round of recrimination. The best the the WDC could do is say £I told you so."

If the IDSF does try and take out a court action though I wouldn't like to standing in the way of the ensuing fireworks.

At least it brighten us up a bit

Best wishes

Steve

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